Better late than never, I say. Here is a rather loose prompt, intentionally so because I'd like there to be a variety of facets available to comment on, so that there can not only be dialogue on one specific point, but other possible directions to go, so that later bloggers don't feel it's all been said already. Here it is:
Based the Miss Representation assembly, the COD event you all attended on the Islamic veil in France, and of course on The Awakening, what would you say is Edna's veil? What is it that has "covered her" throughout her life until now? How does she become aware of it? Who helps her perceive that she is in fact "veiled"? (We talked about WHEN—about moments her awakening unfolds. This is asking WHY and HOW does she awaken, and from what?) Comment, respond to each other's comments (by reading the whole blog) and offer any analysis or commentary on the discoveries and claims made during the conversation. By class on Tuesday, please.
What has covered Edna throughout her life has been the perceived traditional role of women. In the late 1800s, women had very few rights and freedoms- they could only care for their families and were trapped at home. In the Awakening, Edna rebels against this idea, but in the process, separates herself from her husband, children, and the rest of her community. While Edna becomes comfortable expressing her awakening, others around her become skeptical. As the novel progresses, she is gradually spending more time alone- either in the main house, the pigeon house or on Grand Isle. Her suicide is caused by the isolation she feels when no one can understand and relate to her new self. To Edna, only death can provide her with what she is striving for- respite, privacy, shelter, and comfort. In order to be accepted in her community, Edna must hide certain aspects of her personality and only show what others expect from her. She is not willing to do this, and therefore, becomes an outcast in her society. According to Edna, fully expressing herself is more important than fitting into societal norms.
ReplyDeleteEdna’s figurative “veil” is her husband’s influence on her life, and his need to maintain a good image in society. Although Edna first begins to awaken in the presence of her husband at Grand Isle, she doesn’t truly find her independence until she is separated from her family back at her house. When she is in her husband’s presence, she continues to be seen as a housewife, but once she is separated from him, people begin to see her differently. This “unveiling” occurs once her husband is out of town, and his absence empowers her to be unfaithful. Edna finally realizes that she is veiled once she moves into a separate house, with her own belongings. This leads her to separate herself from her husband’s image, and is the first instance of her openly disobeying her husband. However, it is her first kiss with Alcée that provokes her to move. Immediately after her kiss with him, “Without even waiting for an answer from her husband regarding his opinion or wishes in the matter, Edna hastened her preparations for quitting her home on Esplanade Street” (139). Without her sexual awakening, she could not have truly awakened her new, independent self.
ReplyDeleteEdna has been covered throughout her life by the societal expectations of women and their assumed subordinate role in society. For most of her life, Edna was not even aware of this veil, only finally recognizing it after her interactions with Robert, in which she was treated for who she was as an individual, as opposed to her interactions with her husband and with popular culture, in which she was treated as an object with no individuality, simply, "a woman." For instance, in chapter 3, after being treated as an actual individual by Robert, her husband wakes her up from her sleep and commands her to attend to the children, causing Edna to begin to cry. "She could not have told why she was crying. Such experiences as the foregoing were not uncommon in her married life." Robert has planted the idea in her that she is being surpressed by this veil, and this idea will continue to grow inside of her. It was through her interactions with Robert in which she became aware of this veil, however it was through her own actions and willpower that she decided to defy this veil by pursuing her own individuality. Robert was simply the catalyst for this awakening.
ReplyDeleteThere were two ideas that the veil serves to represent that were proposed during the Conference on Democracy “Under Surveillance: Muslim Women in France.” One idea, held by many protestors of the ban, was that the veil is a form of self and religious expression. While some, like the principle of the Gabriel Hevez High school who stated "our goal is to limit excessive externalization of any of religion,” outwardly think that this from of expression is over the top, others believe the veil or chador to be a key practice in Muslim culture; however, it is interesting to note that this practice is not outlined in the Koran. On the other hand, many people believe the veil represents the acquiescence and subjection of women, only promoting gender inequality. Nicolas Sarkozy, the president of France, stated “The burqua is not a religious sign, it is a sign of subjugation, of the submission of women.”
ReplyDeleteTaking this first interpretation of what a veil means, Edna had only just begun to wear hers as she died. This book follows the progression of Edna’s personal empowerment and individuality as she broke free from society’s unspoken regulations, while also demonstrating how these values have out casted her from society. When she died, as she sauntered into the depths of the ocean, the water became her veil, no longer allowing society and American culture to ban her from wearing her veil in public, in their community. She realized that her only fate, if she was to be herself, was death. This veil of the ocean let Edna finally express herself, even though in her own very deluded way. As expressed in the Miss Representation assembly, many women feel like outcasts when they are not the finest as they compare themselves to supermodels, celebrities, seductive, dark-eyed Vera Cruz girls, and perfect mothers like Madame Ratingolle. Realizing that she had not been able to fully put on her veil, to fully express her beliefs and identity, Edna simply felt that life was not worth living. If the proper noun France is replaced with Robert in Kenza Drider quote that was used in the COD, the similarities between Edna’s veil and the one worn by Muslim women in France are made even clearer; Drider is a protestor of the burqua ban. This would say “I never thought I’d see the day when [Robert], my [Robert]…the [man] I love…would do something that so obviously violates [my] freedom.” While Robert originally opened Edna up to the fact that she could put her own metaphorical veil on, converted her to his religion, she later realized that her type of veil is banned in late 1800 Louisiana. She felt betrayed by Robert’s leave to Mexico. The ocean is the final veil she wears as she, at that moment, was able to express her individuality, just what many Muslim women believe their burqas serve to do.
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ReplyDeleteIn regard to the other interpretation of what a veil represents, Robert also helps Edna unwrap hers. This type of veil is one that her husband and society had forced on her. In Chapter 19, page 55, Chopin writes “Mr. Pontellier had been a rather courteous husband so long as he met a certain tacit submissiveness in his wife…her [new] absolute disregard for her duties as a wife angered him.” Edna has broken free from the powerless, matronly, and wifely status that society attempts to mold all young girls into. Just as discussed in the Miss Representation assembly, media and society projects many stereotypes onto women and puts a lot of pressure on women to conform to community norms and standards. Her whole life, up until she met Robert, Edna had been letting society shape who she was, letting society cover her face up and not letting her truly express who she is. She had been covering her true identity with a matronly, submissive, and society-given veil. However, when she took it off, with the help of Robert and even Arobin, she realized that her true self was not acceptable in society. By taking of the veil, she became a very empowered woman and independent, something that was not respected in the late 1800s. This type of veil is the same type that the French government is looking to ban. This ban brings men and women closer to the same level in society by not allowing men to impose veils on women that physically reduce their presence, power, and individuality as human beings.
Edna's veil, like that of many other women of the 1890's, is society's assigned role and its effects on Edna identity. Generally, etiquette in the 1890's involved very little emotional expression, and virtually no publicly accepted expression of love. Marriage, at that time, was still a contract; a familial business exchange of sorts. From her childhood, Edna was raised to be a model wife in society, to be an extension of husband to be. Rarely did society offer her an opportunity to indulge herself, express herself, or even act upon her own desires. Marinating such a pent up life disconnected from her own emotions, she has veiled herself as per society's standard. However, her friendship with Robert begins to entice her back into her instinctual desires and "awakens" new faculties of perception. While some would argue Robert is to blame for tempting Edna into her eventual state of obsessive love, I would argue that Robert was merely a catalyst to Edna's imminent return to self awareness. Having Robert show her and allow her to express happiness on many different levels causes her to be more aware of her world. Edna realized she could find things pleasing at a deeper level, and pursued this pleasure throughout her life, while neglecting her "wifely" duties. Ultimately the veil had given Edna such a massive appetite to find personal pleasure that she could not quench her internal desires.
ReplyDeleteI agree with all that has been said in posts above about the societal pressures of being a woman, Edna's position as a wife, and the general subjugation of women all being part of Edna's veil. But I believe society as a whole and Edna's nature are the main causes of the veil. At the beginning of the story Edna spoke to Madame Ratignolle about religion and how she had become religious, and instead of having real reason she said she was "just driven along by habit" (61). In some sense it was society and her family encouraging this unquestioning nature. She grew up doing as she was expected to and it was not in her nature to go against what others told her to do or expected of her. These two in conjunction formed a veil over her eyes that she allowed to exist up until she spent the summer at Grand Isle. In the moment she realized she was merely religious out of habit she began to awaken and remove her veil. In thinking about why she did what she did, she was able to realize that she needed to control her own life. Things with Robert and her husband leaving help her "unveiling" continue, and she was able to separate herself from the society, which had "veiled" her. When she realized that she could not entirely escape the society that veiled her she decided that she could not live “veiled” any longer and opted for suicide.
ReplyDeleteIt is very evident that “society”—that is, the attitudes and prejudices of the people and culture surrounding us—is the engine by which women, and in this case, Edna, are “veiled” and subjugated. I argue, however, that there comes a point when the suppression of a group becomes so internalized by that subject group that “society” is no longer needed to engender the ‘response of inferiority’ (donning a headscarf or keeping silent in the presence of men, for instance). After that point, it takes a revelation on the behalf of the individual, which often must be triggered by an outside force, to be rescued from the mental block. This is seen in “Miss Representation” with the movie’s emphasis on the repeated objectification of women in the media. It is very easy for a young girl to internalize the message that her body is her best and only attribute to the point that she believes it is true, instead of this influence being recognized as simply an advertising strategy. In the Conference on Democracy session about Muslim women in secular France, we see that Islam’s definition of women as being inferior—any headscarf or covering is purposed to prevent men from being distracted by sexual flair from worshipping Allah—is so ingrained in some women that they require it of themselves, even in a secular setting. For Edna, the primary sources of her old self-entrapment are her husband’s focus on materialism and the other women who accept their husbands unconditionally. Robert’s company sparks in Edna a period of introspection, primarily because he is sensual and treats her like woman, not a possession. His presence serves as a catalyst for allowing Edna to realize her potential as a thoughtful, autonomous being; this was an idea that, prior to Robert’s involvement, would not have occurred to Edna given her assimilation into the cult of objectivity in the presence of her husband. So, in the end, it was Edna who enabled herself to become aware of her predicament and the absurdity of her tacit submission to others’ demands.
ReplyDeleteEdna’s veil is the veil that many women don today. Mr. Pontelllier treated her as one of his many possessions that he used as a tool to gain standing and respect among his peers. The Conference on Democracy on Miss Representation showed that the intellect and personalities of women are “veiled” through the objectivity a woman’s body receives from media. To Leconce, Edna was just another object he possessed that should be maintained and was expected keep up with her obligation as his wife, the mother of his children and the hostess to his parties. His control over her life was Edna’s veil both internally and in society. She never seemed to notice this veil she wore, dictated by her gender role in society until she met Robert and was “awakened”. The novel continuously speaks of her realizing or noticing something in her life for the first time, parts of her own body or household. In the final chapter of The Awakening Edna completely undresses, covering nothing and “for the first time in her life stood naked in open air… She felt like some new-born creature, opening its eyes in a familiar world that it had never known” (175). The veil both counseled her true identity from the world but it also counseled the world from her. The wearing of a veil to many people represent the ultimate symbol of male domination, suppression and the refusal of the basic human right to expression, through the emotions and feeling counseled by the veil. While Edna’s veil may not be visible, when Edna was awakened she for the first time saw this veil shrouding her life and herself and in her final act in life was taking it off, literally and figuratively in the last chapter.
ReplyDeleteEdna's veil is all of the things that influence her life every day: her husband, her kids, her friends. Like in the movie MissRepresentation, Edna is unable to truly express herself in front of her family and friends. The pressure that is derived from these people forced her to be someone defined by society, instead of herself. This drives her to a life of solidarity, which she enjoys very much. MissRepresentation preaches that in order for women to be valued for whom they are instead of what they look like or provide, they need to support each other. I believe that this is a key point that leads Edna to her death because she is not supported by anyone, let alone women. Her friends do not support her, her husband continuously treats her like his possession, and Robert does not understand her transition. However, this transition is voluntary, much like the decision for muslim women in France to wear a veil. It has no religious significance, nor is it something that is forced by a higher power. Edna does not have to become a new women and defy society's traditions, yet it is something that becomes her goal. No matter what, Edna is determined to become an independent women. In the end, even though this leads to her death, I believe that Edna thinks of herself as an "unveiled" women when she steps into the ocean at the Grand Isle. Edna goes to an extreme to "take off" her veil, but I respect that she was unable to live in a society that did not except her true identity. Hopefully the women who decide to wear a veil in France do not go to that extreme; however, MissRepresentation did say that the results of dehumanization leads many women to depression. It would be interesting to see if people in France find MissRepresentation relevant to their struggle with the veil. Edna should not be a role model to women, but instead, a lesson and warning to society.
ReplyDeleteMr. Pontellier has treated Edna as though she is an object of his. It is not until Edna spends time with Robert on Grande Isle that she realizes she has been "under a veil". Robert enables Edna to become aware that she has been treated as a posession of her husbands and not a full women by spending time with her alone and not associating her with her husband. Robert's ignorance of Mr. Pontellier allows Edna to thrive. Once Edna goes on a path of empowerment (starting with her first swim) she becomes a new person. This swim allows Edna to realize that she is more than just Mrs. Pontellier and is Edna. Edna gains the courage to defy her husbands wants after her swim. Mr. Pontellier grows nervous of this and goes to see a doctor because he wants his "possession" to listen to him. It is not Edna's wellbeing that Mr. Pontellier goes to the doctor for, it is his concern that he is losing his dominance over Edna. When Mr. Pontellier goes on his business trip Edna's growth continues.
ReplyDelete-Daisy
I agree with just about everyone else’s consensus of Edna’s veil coming from society but for originality’s sake I’m going to argue that Edna’s veil is self-created. Yes, society had a big part in her creation of that veil, but the veil that is lifted throughout the story is one that she has fabricated because knowing certain things would have caused nothing but trouble. The housewife veil that she had donned before meeting Robert was composed by her because all that she had needed to do was put on a nice face, and tend to her family. Any rebelliousness such as her actions with Robert would have only hurt the family, and lead to her loneliness. The same could be said about a women wearing a veil in France: it would be possible for her to take it off, but if she did then her former system would not take her back, and there wouldn’t be a new system to take her in: she would be stranded. For Edna, what allowed her to lift her veil to break away from Léonce was the reassurance that Robert would be there to receive her on the other side of the curtain.
ReplyDelete-Adam
Edna's veil comes from the way that her society treats women as objects. She has grown up believing that she is an object and so she treats herself like one. When Edna is in Grande Isle she finds that all women are not treated like objects by the way that Robert treats her. Edna begins to embrace the Creole's way of life which is much more blunt and open about their emotions. As Edna is opening herself up, she is lifting the veil that society has placed upon her. She now is beginning to accept herself, her sexual desires, her artistic desires and her independence. Lifting this veil created some troubles in Edna's life though. She began to drive away her family as well as some of her friends and only focus on herself instead of looking at the implications of her actions on the people around her.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with the fact the society is Edna's veil. The veil is not necessarily viewed as oppression by the women that wear it and the veil can be a choice. However, one does not choose to don or not to don societal pressures and the subjugation of women. One cannot choose to be viewed as inferior. I think that Edna's veil is rather one of conformity. One can choose to conform to the pressures that society presents him or her. Although a woman may disagree with society and their view of women, she has no choice in them. The choice comes with her decision to conform or to resist the norms presented by this society. The idea of choice is central to the discussion of the veil. Through her self discovery and awakening to independence, Edna lifts the veil of conformity. She ceases to attend her Tuesdays at home taking visitors. She moves away from her large house to be independent. Her actions are no longer the norm for women in her time. Society is more like the religion of Islam, requesting that the women wear the veil as society requests women to conform to the standards it presents. Edna's awakening is essentially about putting herself before society. It is about her discovering her independence. Her final suicide is an expression of independence and shows no thought of her obligation to society. This act would be similar to a women who sheds the veil then takes it even farther and leaves the religion of Islam.
ReplyDelete-Julian
I agree that what “veils” Edna is her objectification in her strict role as a wife and mother. I would take this idea further by connecting it back to the Miss Representation assembly. One of the speakers said that objects are acted upon while subjects act. I think that Edna’s “unveiling” is not only her realization that she has been an object for many years, but her coming to terms with her ability to be a subject. Robert does help her on Grand Isle to realize she has been an object of her husband’s, by treating her with respect, but it can be argued that Robert also treats her as an object in his obsession with her. He wants nothing more than to marry her, in effect taking Mr. Pontellier’s possession and making it his own. He is uncomfortable with her becoming more powerful; when the pair have a short conversation about future plans, she expresses doubts about becoming another man’s wife. This dialogue is interrupted, but leaves an air of uncertainty about their having shared goals as a couple. Increasingly, he seems wary of her learning to act independently as a subject, especially when she is acting on him. He doesn’t want to be an object either, and with her growing confidence, one can see her control over his emotions develop.
ReplyDelete-Linnea
It remains present that women struggle for equality with men and society. As shown in the assembly of Miss Representation, beauty and the feminine body is displayed through media that rots the minds of adolescent boys and girls. Males are less affected by women portrayal, but their opinion matters when judging the most appealing woman. Females, however, are within the social construct of what the media depicts and care more about outer beauty than intellectuals. In the Conference on Democracy session, Muslim women wear a veil in secular France, which degrades women. Wearing a headscarf or covering of body is made to prevent sexual interactions and distractions from Males from their worships. As for Edna, her “veil” is society and her obligations with Mr. Pontellier being the inferior by loving unconditionally and following his commands. Robert’s company and flirty compliments make Edna feel human instead of a possession of Mr. Pontellier since he sees her as an item. Alone, Edna perceived herself veiled after her realization, which enabled her to defy the norms of a woman. Robert triggers Edna’s realization of potential and then she becomes independent.
ReplyDeleteEdna’s veil is that of Mr. Pontellier’s and society’s making. Because Edna’s husband treats her more like a favorite object than an actual person, Edna is unable to recognize the true value of herself as a human being and is thus covered with this veil; one that detaches her from the life she could be living at her full potential. I agree with Linnea in saying that this ties into the difference between women, specifically Edna, being an object versus a subject. Edna’s veil is one that she has carried with her her whole life, and her true awakening begins, along with the discovery that she is, in fact, a subject, when she is at Grand Isle. More specifically, I think the awakening really begins when Edna realizes she can swim. When she is swimming, Edna is being unveiled by proving to herself and to the others there that she has the power to accomplish what they thought, and what she herself thought, she was unable to do. This awakening is only furthered by her interactions with Robert and the absence of her husband and children in her life for an extended period of time.
ReplyDelete-Keli
I perceive Edna's "veil" as a societal stereotype/norm that was never broken by women of her era. Throughout Edna's life, she obviously was living with a "veil", yet her unhappiness did not become conscious to her until her trip to Grand Isle. There, she realized what she missing out on, specifically regarding her personal relationships. She fell in love with Robert, and became frustrated with her husband. Her husband expected her to be a typical house-wife that would never question his authority. Her emotions were ignored by him, until she came to the point where she could no longer remain sane. Her desire for Robert took over, and while missing him when he left for Mexico, she went through a self-discovery. Her veil began to come off as she began to make decisions. Edna's final decision, to take her own life, had to happen because she was lacking the nurture and care she needed in order to thrive. The person who was supposed to be closest to her--her own husband--did not notice a difference in her as she evolved into a new woman. Although she became aware of what needed to change in her life, she did not find herself strong and powerful enough to work through the challenge, which led her to committing suicide. Edna's death is a prime example of what many woman of her time were susceptible to face due to society's belief on their ability to go about in life without question of their own personal need.
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